$499.99. TTAG cannot verify whether the U.S. Army knew about the P320 drop safe issue prior to our coverage in August 2017. I don’t care how many foreign garrison based Armies use a Glock. If they wanted to have a compact pistol for CID then there were many off the shelf options available. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Now we get to sit back and watch Glock fanboys tell Sig fanboys how the Glock should have won and the Glock is better. Obviously Glock should have been in ….In both 9mm and 45 acp ! All animosity aside, how exactly does a pistol eject live ammunition? Then plot the data. Sig Sauer P320 Lima Compact 9mm Semi-Automatic Pistol w/ LIMA320 Green Laser Grip, Stainless - 320C-9-BSS-LIMA-G . I and others knew this entire thing was b*****it from the start…. Don’t worry about SIG problems. That’s the worst of the worst. Inside the Pentagon’s DOT&E FY 2017 Annual Report, a standard bureaucratic work product usually full of dry legalese regarding expensive weapons systems soon to be canceled for cost overruns, there is a section on the Sig Sauer XM17 / XM18 pistols. . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1AZyH8DutQ. Misguided? It’s been 100% reliable from the first day, which btw saw 250 rounds through it that day. Looking at the requirements- stuff like “no finger grooves!”- the test was written for the answer, not the other way around. Had the government stuck with genuine parts, this would have been a non-issue. Anyone feeling nostalgic for the Beretta M9 yet? After almost a year and 5,000 rounds, let’s take a look at how the SIG Sauer P320 XCompact did. The Executive Summary (linked in the article) states that after the drop fire problem was fixed by installing a lighter trigger, two triggers broke (splintered). Christ we’ve been using the same rifle System since 1965 what was the big fire to carry a new handgun. All this because someone in Washington wanted to punish Beretta for moving out of Maryland after the state passed an assault weapons ban. unreliable) and obsolete…. Sig Sauer Inc. has agreed to settle a class-action lawsuit over its P320 pistol, on which the Army's Modular Handgun System is based. A total of 14 slide failures were documented with only 3 by the Navy Seals all of which were in operational use. New. Grayguns PELT Sig Sauer P320 Competition Trigger Kit - Curved . Pardon my density, but in a world with on-demand, just in time, batch-oriented logistics n for realz mass customization … easing internal logistics with “commonality” seems off point. I really think that the United States Army should shitcan Sig Sauer. Anything else, including THE ENTIRE PURPOSE FOR THE EXISTENCE OF THE MILITARY, is now at least 5th down the line in terms of importance. Your email address will not be published. taskandpurpose.com: The Pentagon’s overview on its gear and tech programs in 2017, conducted by the Office of the Director of Operational Test and Evaluation and released earlier in January 2018, indicated that both the XM17 and XM18 pistols demonstrated a series of persistent problems, including accidental discharge, ejecting live ammunition, and relatively frequent stoppages when firing ammunition encased in a full metal jacket. That’s why they changed the design from the Beretta 92SB to the SB-F, and why the SEALs switched to the P226 when everyone else was going to the 92. But why not just keep the M9. Heck, even in supply chain land, the cost of “stuff” skews ever more toward clerking and tracking. SIG’s P320 is having a hard time staying out of the news. I mean a truly evil company obviously used their time machine to manipulate the laws of time and space to ensure they’d make tens of thousands pistols with the flaw, but only after they’d discovered it, went back in time and un-fixed it so that….or something. WON’T cycle FMJ ?!?!? Bore axis is only one factor. It’s a huge project. Featuring a gold titanium nitride coating and lightened skeletonized trigger, the stand-alone, serialized FCU allows shooters to build their own P320 pistol using SIG and aftermarket grip modules, slides and barrels. The P320 Carry offers a smooth, crisp trigger to make any shooter more accurate, an intuitive, 3-point takedown and unmatched modularity to fit any shooter and any situation. Just doesn’t make any damn sense to me whatsoever wasting all this money on a pistol program that turned out to be crap just like six hours usually are. That is the kind of abuse that I am talking about. Fifty-nine of the accused have admitted guilt and will remain at the school under a form of probation. Your email address will not be published. That’s a shit ton of guns. US shooting competitors run their handguns a lot harder than the Army does and they have universally moved to polymer framed pistols. – the Army will have M9s for the next 10 years at least. “There were two trigger splintering hardware deficiencies observed during the IOT&E. These Exchange kits have been very heavily backordered since the P320’s launch last year. The Beretta is an excellent gun as far as function too. In other words, you simply square the velocity of recoil, which is easily calculated when we know the weight of the bullet and powder charge and its velocity when exiting from the muzzle. When we asked about the P320 drop safe issue that August, SIG SAUER told TTAG they had modified the military model’s trigger to enhance the trigger pull and eliminate the “click” about which many users — including the U.S. Army — had complained. As someone who used an M9 for more than not looking too unfriendly during a meet and greet with your local terrorist enabler I hated the M9. What makes it a turd? It’s not the number or rounds fired. SIG SAUER P320 M17 $1,499.99. Notify When In Stock. The service's M17 and M18 MHS pistols feature an upgraded design and have "passed the U.S. Army's testing protocols," according to Sig officials. . Tellurium is added to increase machinability, by increasing chip breakage. I have that same exact problem with mine. So Sig knew their POS P320 wasn’t drop-safe, and they foisted it on us consumers anyway. Note your shock and awe when there are gross inconsistencies between dimensions on seemingly the same model. The suspension is unrelated to a recent report that found significant faults in Fort Hood's command climate and culture. If you’re adding an RMR as a future standard, I’d be in favor of that, then that might change things as the M9, without a significant slide redesign, couldn’t use one, and the M17 already has a cut, but the rear sight is on the adapter, who thought that was a good idea. There’s a reason why there is so much xm855 and xm885 on the market. -- Matthew Cox can be reached at email@example.com. Oooh, that’s MUCH better!”)? I prefer the G19 and its what I carry now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1AZyH8DutQ. Thankfully, their Jedi mind trick didn’t work on most of us. Small arms using 100+ year old technology should be off the shelf ready.. It should have been the Army’s choice. I am quite certain there are mean failure ratios in the contract that have to be met or the contract will either be adjusted or Sig found in breach. SIG SAUER Custom Works has unleashed the soul of the P320. They were just “UPGRADES”! Out of stock. Few of us are foolish enough to actually believe that any tool made by Man is ‘perfect;’ Neither are we foolish enough to confound a mechanical defect that does NOT result in a negligent discharge with one that DOES. Here's Why, New Naval Strategy Zeroes in on China as Biggest Long-Term Threat to the US, Congress Authorizes New Arctic Icebreakers for Coast Guard, Navy, Coast Guard Search for Sailor Overboard off USS Theodore Roosevelt, A Marine Reveals Everything Right and Wrong with that 'Mandalorian' Mortar Trooper, Netflix Reminds Us that the $6 Billion Dollar Soldier Is Coming Soon, Here Are the 10 Best Military Movies of 2020. Sig Sauer P320 in Stock at the Best Price! The P320 is an abortion that should go back to formula (i.e. That statement implies that the person making it will never stumble, trip, sweat, bleed, have a mini or major stroke, a coronary event, a muscle cramp, or a momentary inattention, and is, in fact, ‘perfect.’ Course I guess from a civilian prospective now that would be wayyyy to easy. Seeing as the pistol is 100% with hollowpoints, and still 60%-75% with NEW SPEC ball ammo, I’m betting it’s some ammo QC issue rather than SIG engineering. One of the more interesting statements in the report is the fact that the Army discovered the drop fire issue with the XM17 pistols prior to it becoming known to the world with the P320 pistol. Required fields are marked *. That’s right, they want to avoid the slide causing the sight picture going down too far! That’s not to say that the Sig Sauer P320 isn’t completely safe to use. New. There is another problem that is concerning. Following the Senate's approval last week, the House passed the bill Wednesday by voice vote without any objections. Check out the Impact Guns video review on the Sig P320 X-Carry W/ Romeo 1 Red Dot. The Beretta’s were not flying off due to using overpressure ammunition. We stock the Sig Sauer P320 and P250 magazines for sale that are manufactured to exacting standards and precise specifications. start over from scratch). It’s in their interest to find problems. Much better for our troops is a modern polymer frames compact sized handgun like the G19 or P320. Sig Sauer, based in New Hampshire, makes the Army's Modular Handgun System. Quick view Sig Sauer. "SIG SAUER has conducted extensive testing of both the pre-upgrade and post-upgrade P320 pistols to confirm its position that the pistol will not fire with the slide and barrel in an unlocked condition.". Going to a tellurium free grade steel and adding radii to those corners fixed the issue. $149.00. 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SIG told TTAG that their work on the P320 trigger coincidentally fixed the drop safe issue. Buy Glock…..its not “Americas got talent” or a beauty pageant…it has to work and work well…….and GLOCK WORKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jesus, Ted, did they make you buy one? I don’t know, I’ll stick with systems with a proven track record, not this LATEST AND GREATEST BS. Why they didn’t just switch to the fnx or fns is beyond me. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. But if you do that the data might point away from what you’ve already decided. Two days ago omahaoutdoors.com ran a blandly titled post entitled Pentagon Weapons Testing Office Report on the SIG MHS / XM17. Find out why the Sig P320 was awarded the 2016 American Rifleman Golden Bullseye "Handgun of the Year' award. “The Pentagon’s overview on its gear and tech programs in 2017, conducted by the Office of the Director of Operational Test and Evaluation and released earlier in January 2018, indicated that both the XM17 and XM18 pistols demonstrated a series of persistent problems, including accidental discharge, ejecting live ammunition, and relatively frequent stoppages when firing ammunition encased in a full metal jacket.”, ……..I see no problem here…..SAYS NO ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But pistols barely get issued, the training regimen is woeful for pistols, because they’re really are very few folks using them in combat. 9MM SEMI AUTO 10 ROUNDS 4.7 BARREL NOT SPECIFIED LBS. It the abuse the equipment gets in the field. Then 300 about a month later. The slides would have fatigue cracks at the corners of the notches where the locking block ears would engage the slide. Nominate Them For A $1,000 Prize From AARP, Fewer Military Recruits Dropped Out of Boot Camp in 2020. Must be nice. That’s unconscionable. That’s it so far, but there’s been nary a bobble with either Blazer Brass FMJ or Speer Gold Dot (150rds). For 30 years us Beretta fans have taken grief from Sig fans about how the Sig should have won and the Sig was better. There are quite a few options out there that would increase effectiveness, and little of it actually has to do with the launching platform. Out of stock. It isn’t the same thing as being deployed in the field. Sig Sauer P320 M17 commercial variant of the military contract sidearm. Hardness all over the place on the same key parts varies wildly from one gun to the next. Too large If they didn’t find any, they wouldn’t be doing their job and probably wouldn’t exist for too long. SIG told TTAG that their work on the P320 trigger coincidentally fixed the drop safe issue. Heck, you only save 5 Oz between an M9 and M17. The P320 can be chambered in 9×19mm Parabellum, .357 SIG, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP, and can be easily converted … With in spec ammo and multiple failures at below 5,000 rounds. Polymer is as far as you can get from “universal” adoption. Oh, I’m sorry. Its been around about as long as the Beretta, but somehow is totally modern, Hooray for backstraps, (lack of) finger grooves, ambi controls that make previous generations’ slides and barrels incompatible, a safety that we just Dremeled into the plastic, and a needless second lanyard loop that makes previous generations’ magazines incompatible! Never heard of that one before. Having bugs that need to be ironed out should be expected with new guns. “But it’s heavy and expensive.” I hear what your saying and Imma let you finish, but I counter your argument with the fact THE DAMN THING WORKS! A friend of mine has carried one his entire LE career with me, and fired untold number of rounds through it in that 30 years. A Navy SEAL was injured this way when they were using overpressure ammunition in it. The majority of common semi-auto pistol calibers don’t have that much recoil in guns that you can get a whole hand on. The M9-A3 addressed all the Army’s issues except for the slide mounted safety. SIG SAUER P320 Engraved Edition with 10 rd magazine $1,149.99. Shop By. Add to Cart. Sig Sauer P320 Striker Fire Pistols For Sale. Also, load-bearing contact surfaces seem undersized in some areas, and oversized in others. I love Chris Bartocci. And according to my Dad when I had him read this, why he threw a fit when they took away his M14 and gave him a “…piece of junk, jam-o-matic, pansy M16”, cause they jammed all the time and hence he had no time for one, yet that’s still the basic design used by our Military… They fix this and that as needed and that’s why you’ve got a 30 year history of M9 use. Sig Sauer P320: Gun Review. If your left handed you should learn to shoot right-handed before basic training was over. But they consciously, knowingly put the unsafe version in the hands of Americans. Meanwhile I’ll just pop some popcorn, enjoy the show and keep enjoying my Beretta 96. . Should have completed the tests before choosing. If I’m going to tote around gun that big it’s gonna be launching a bigger bullet too. “Get over it”, and “make it work” hurts feelings, and as you know, in an organization whose sole purpose is ultimately to kill enemies and break their shit (and who have historically done a phenomenal job at that), ensuring that nobody has their feelings hurt is the #1, and #2, and #3, and possible also #4 priority. I would far rather have a pistol that defaulted to ‘safe’ if something goes wrong, than one that fires itself instead. I guess it’s time to go buy that Desert Eagle, since I’m now aware of these magical slide properties. The SIG Sauer M17 and M18 are service pistols used by the United States Armed Forces.. On January 19, 2017, the United States Army announced that a customized version of the SIG Sauer P320 had won the Army's XM17 Modular Handgun System competition.The full-sized model will be known as the M17, and the smaller-sized carry model will be known as the M18.